In lieu of the usual bio / background, we start out by asking John why he would even make a comeback to Ufology and esoterica after his veritable disappearance from the scene in the early 1990's. We dive right into discussion on 1980's Ufology, beginning with how John ended up interested in UFOs and his interaction with Paul Bennewitz, notorious victim of government UFO disinformation. We get John's opinion on Bennewitz's research and how accurate he feels that information may have been. The other 1980's powerhouse that we discuss is the notorious Bill Cooper. John talks about how he met Bill Cooper, the amusing story of John and a friend creating the "O.H. Crlll Papers," and how Cooper's claims of having seen the papers in the Navy led to John distancing himself from Cooper because he got "UFO disease." We also learn what, if any, interaction he had with Rick Doty during that period of Ufology. John also shares what he's heard regarding the true story of Project Serpo.

Breaking the 4th wall, somewhat, we find out where John gets the bulk of his information from and how much of it is really from "inside sources." Wrapping up our discussion on the 1980's Ufology scene, we get John's take on Bill Moore's saga in the field. John talks about his reaction to the MJ-12 papers being released and the great story of how he confirmed aspects of the story with aviation pioneer Jimmy Doolittle. We find out about the infamous 1989 MUFON Symposium which saw Lear forming a splinter convention because the speakers he chose were not allowed by MUFON officials. This leads to some discussion about the schism that happened in Ufology around the late 1980's. John also shares the serendipitous story of how the Area 51 story was broken with George Knapp.

Jumping out of the 1980's, we get clarification from John on his statements, from 2004, regarding humans being containers for souls and the souls being harvested on the moon. This leads to us getting John's take on the Moon Hoax Theory. We then find out why John puts so much stock in revelations put forward by message board poster "Sleeper," whom he has quoted and referenced quite a bit in recent years.

When then jump back to the famous 1987 "Lear Briefing" and inquire about a few points from that 22 year old document, which John wrote as a sort of "State of the UFO Secret" paper. We discuss the incident mentioned in the briefing where a UFO allegedly crashed and was so big that the government just buried it on-site because they couldn't move it. We find out from John if there is any more info on that since the original publication of the paper. We then move on to discuss both the Dulce Underground Base story and, more specifically, the legend of a conflict between the US soldiers stationed there and an EBE that was "working" there.

Referencing another aspect of the '87 Lear papers, we find out what he thinks the insiders' perspective on the aliens is now, since he wrote that they were against the aliens as far back as 1984. This leads to John telling us what he thinks is the true role of the Grey aliens. This also leads to some discussion on the afterlife and reincarnation. The conversation then moves towards UFO Disclosure and John gives us his stunning estimate for when such an event may take place. We then discuss "human mutilations," a phenomenon John mentioned in his 2003 Lear Briefing. We briefly discuss 2012 and John talks about his skepticism that anything esoterically major will happen. We also talk about the possibility of a false-flag alien invasion being perpetrated onto the human race by the "powers that be."

The conversation then moves into some discussion on the moon and outer space. We begin with asking John if he thinks the advancement of commercial space flight will hinder the UFO cover-up. This leads to John talking about the Van Allen belt and why he sees it as an intentionally constructed shield against humans leaving Earth orbit. John also discusses the curious case of UFO contactee Howard Menger and details his story. We find out if John thinks there is a secret space program and if that program is able to get to the moon. John introduces a new theory, of sorts, regarding what the Space Shuttle is doing for the three days in space it takes for it to reach the International Space Station. This leads to some discussion on John's theory of the "4th astronaut" which he says was a secret part of all Apollo missions. He also talks about how he thinks the Moon Hoax was orchestrated using the Apollo module.

This segues into some discussion on secret space weapons, notably one that John believes is responsible for the collapse of the Twin Towers on 911. John details his mind blowing theory that the planes that struck the Twin Towers on 911 were actually holograms. John shares two remarkable stories he has heard from people who have seen the truly advanced level at which holograms are at now. We also get John's opinion on whether or not there is some kind of connection between 911 and the UFO enigma and John lays out the different motivations behind 911.

Our next area of discussion is John's contention that the Pacific Ocean underlies a large part of the Western US and that the Navy knows this and uses a base in Nevada to access this underground ocean. John also shares information which suggests that this underground ocean may stretch across to the eastern side of the US as well.

The conversation then moves towards Bob Lazar and we first find out how John feels about being the de facto caretaker of the Bob Lazar / Area 51 story, since Lazar has seemingly dropped out of the esoteric scene. We get some clarification on John's recent assertions that Lazar is back working with the government. We also have John extrapolate some more on the Element 115 that Bob Lazar allegedly had. Then we talk a bit about how he feels about the firestorm that erupted over the Lazar story, especially since John was so intertwined with the story that he must have insights which make it absolutely believable to him. John also revisits the events that led up to the famous March 21, 1989 visit to the outskirts of Area 51.

Examining another branch of Ufology, we get John's take on the Exopolitical movement, especially in light of his perspective that UFO disclosure will not happen anytime soon. We also get his perspective on Ufology and John contends that they missed the boat with the Bob Lazar story and speculates on why it was so vehemently attacked by many corners of the field. Talking about another area of esoterica that indelibly has John's fingerprints on it, we discuss how he inspired Art Bell to turn his radio program into a more paranormal themed show, which launched the juggernaut that became The Art Bell Show and, later, Coast to Coast AM. John talks about when he parted ways with Art and how he feels Art lost a percentage of his audience by dismissing the 911 conspiracy theories.

Heading towards the close, we break the 4th wall and ponder why it seems like, no matter what branch of esoterica he is discussing, John's theories always seem to be on the fringe of what the rest of the field is saying. We also get John's advice for young people who may have an interest in the esoterica. We get John's perspective on the concept of Ufology as a collective and that there is a responsibility beholden to the individuals of the field to sacrifice in the name of the field as a whole. We then find out what's next for John Lear and if there's any chance he would write his memoirs chronicling his role in Ufology's history.

John Lear is a retired airline captain and former CIA contract pilot with over 19,000 hours of flight time, over 11,000 in command of 3 or 4 engine jet transports, has flown over 100 different types of aircraft in 60 different countries around the world. He retired in 2001 after 40 years of flying.

Son of Learjet inventor, Bill Lear, John holds more FAA airman certificates than any other FAA certificated airman. These include the Airline Transport Pilot certificate with 23 type ratings, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Flight Navigator, Ground Instructor, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and Parachute Rigger. John flew secret missions for the CIA in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1967 and 1983. During the last 17 years of his career John worked for several passenger and cargo airlines as Captain, Check Airman and Instructor. He was certificated by the FAA as a North Atlantic Navigation Check Airman. He has extensive experience as command pilot and instructor in the Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 and Lockheed L-1011. John held 17 world records including Speed Around the World in a Lear Jet Model 24 set in 1966 and was presented the PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controller's Association) award for Outstanding Airmanship in 1968.

John Lear's role in shaping Ufology's history is beyond dispute. In 1988, John met and became friends with Bob Lazar, the government scientist who worked on the back-engineering of the propulsion system of the extraterrestrial UFOs at area S-4, outside of Area 51. In March 1989, Lazar took John to an area close to Rachel Nevada where he witnessed the flight of a flying saucer at the exact time Lazar told him it would occur. Shortly thereafter, the Area 51 story exploded onto the UFO scene, via the reporting of George Knapp, and has been a staple of Ufology and esoterica ever since.

During the late 1980's, John tracked down and found the Army Intelligence Analyst who read, probably by accident, the U.S. government report Grudge 13, which documented the history of the U.S. UFO cover up and details of saucer recoveries, disposition of their occupants, and handling of civilian witnesses.

Art Bell has credited John Lear for influencing the early direction of the Art Bell Show, which subsequently became Coast to Coast AM, towards focusing mainly on the esoteric. John Lear was also responsible for bringing the Area 51 story to the attention of George Knapp, thus planting the seed for Knapp's future explorations of the UFO topic as well.

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2 hr 23 min
John Lear