We start out with our usual jumping off point: the bio/background and we find out how William got interested in the Columbine shooting in the first place. We then bring folks up to speed on the Columbine shooting and have William detail the official, mainstream, version of events from April 20th, 1999. From there, William tells us when he began to feel there was more to the story than what the mainstream was telling us and he talks about how he'd heard conflicting reports of the events of Columbine from different people in the area, since he lives, and was working, relatively close to Columbine at the time.

We then begin trying to untangle the Columbine story, starting with a phone call that was received to a local hospital that warned about and/or predicted the shooting, hours before it took place. William then contrasts the official version of events at Columbine with what he thinks happened there that day. He begins by detailing how his findings suggest that there were more than two shooters and that the school was actually beseiged by shooters. He also details how witness reports have shooters wearing entirely different attire from what purported shooters Harris & Klebold were said to have been wearing. William also goes over how the weapons said to have been used by the shooters contrasts with the witness statements of some of the Columbine students who were there during the shooting.

William then goes over the physical descriptions of Harris and Klebold and how the witnesses, both police and students, described shooters who looked vastly different. He then tells us about the alleged rooftop shooters and talks about how his information from eyewitnesses suggests that there were several different people on the roof and not a lone maintenance worker, as the official version states.

Going off on a tangential element to William's version of events, we find out, from him, what became of these other suspects once the shooting ended. He goes over three scenarios as to how these alleged additional shooters ended up escaping. Binnall then plays Devil's Advocate and puts forth the question of why the government and police would just allow these additional shooters to escape if all of these witness reports conflict with the official version of events. William, in turn, details why he believes there was some blackmail involved in keeping the police from doing anything about these suspects.

Extrapolating on that thought, William details Harris & Klebold's earlier arrest for breaking into a van and how he thinks it was a set-up by the police and the brutal treatment of Harris & Klebold by the police at the arrest was the information used to blackmail them into letting the other suspects go. William also responds to Binnall's skepticism that the knowledge of the police beating could lead to a cover-up of the school shooting, since they are vastly different crimes.

Binnall then challenges William's theory by asking why, if there were additional student shooters that got away with it, none of the other students made any noise or raised the issue after the events happened and the suspects were allowed to resume their normal lives. This leads to some discussion on how many students in the area knew something like the shooting was going to occur and that foreknowledge may have been used to keep them quiet about other shooters after the event.

Bringing the discussion back to the events of April 20, 1999, we get William's take on just when the shooting began in Columbine, since the phone call, and some police reports, seem to suggest that it started much earlier than the mainstream version of events says it did. William details the admission by the police that they "destroyed the timeline" surrounding the shooting and he explains what exactly that means. Given that the evidence from the event was destroyed, according to the police, we find out, from William, what his take is of the footage that has surfaced from the event, as seen in the film Bowling for Columbine.

Jumping back into the discussion of the timeline, William details some of the suspicious elements surrounding the witnesses statements with regards to the issue of just when the shooting started. This leads to Binnall asking the skeptical question of why the government would change the start time of the events in the witness statements but leave the parts about additional shooters still in the documents.

William then details his opinion that the shooting took place either much earlier in the morning on April 20th or, in a completeley mindblowing twist, actually began on April 19th and was more of a hostage situation. He explains his evidence for this, based on some police reports stating that the event began on April 19th and how there are issues surrounding the autopsies of the Columbine victims which suggest that they died earlier than the official events of April 20th. This leads to William suggesting that the reason behind the widespread cover-up by the local residents of the area is because they are all former government employees and that the town is a "safe community" for former government intelligence agents.

After that side tangent, we go back to the events of that day and William details how there is a 45 minute gap of missing time in the documents and witness reports regarding the SWAT team inside the school. He talks about how witness reports say that there was much more gunfire and activity inside the school after 12:15, which is when Harris & Klebold allegedly killed themselves. He then details some of the strange activity going on inside the school after the shooting allegedly ended, including an FBI HRT team presence inside the school before the SWAT team entered, shootouts between apparently two different factions inside the building, the presence of officers with NATO written on their shield, and the emergence of an armed four star general from the school later in the day.

Trying to sift through the events that William alleges to have happened inside the school on April 20th, he explains how he thinks there were three groups of "bad guys" inside Columbine high school that day purpetrating the crime. He explains how he thinks the event was allowed to happen to be used as a special ops training exercise and PR effort by the government to forward gun control legislation.

Taking another skeptical look at William's theories, Binnall asks why the death count was so low if this was allegedly a lengthy shoot-out. He explains how many of the people injured were not classified as victims of the shooting due to a loophole in reporting procedures. William then details how his research indicates that there were many more deaths at Columbine than were reported by the police and mainstream media. Binnall then asks how it is even possible for there to be a cover-up of additional deaths, when there are parents involved and they surely wouldn't stand idly by while the police cover-up their childrens' deaths and William responds.

We next get into some of the high strangeness surrounding Columbine, beginning with the memorial service which William attended following the event. At this point, William lays out his big picture thesis on what Columbine really was and it is so wild that we are omitting it from the recap. Binnall takes the Devil's Advocate position and asks William if perhaps he is trying to ascribe rational reasons behind the irrational acts of Columbine and maybe connecting dots that don't really connect.

Continuing to look at the high strangeness and paranormal connections to Columbine, William tells us about odd supernatural events, like hauntings, around the area of the Columbine school. He shares his own supernatural experience near the Columbine school and details how many people who enter the Columbine school say that they have the eerie feeling of "being watched" by some presence there. He details some other ghostly activity that has been reported at the school. He then makes a shocking revelation about the land where the Columbine high school was built.

We then cover some of the mysterious deaths and disappearances related to Columbine and William details some of those for us. He talks about some of the witnesses who saw things different from the mainstream version of events and, subsequently, died mysteriously. We then pose the classic conspiracy skeptic question to William: if there was a conspiracy and they are killing witnesses who speak out, why haven't they eliminated him yet? We also find out how the survivors, parents, and government officials in the area have reacted to his work researching a potential Columbine conspiracy.

We discuss the lawsuit brought by Columbine parents against the police department and find out why they never mention the possibility of additional shooters or a cover-up. This leads into some discussion on theories of mind control being involved in the Columbine event and we get William's take on where he stands regarding that issue. We also find out why William seems to be the only researcher looking into the Columbine shooting and that there aren't any other conspiracy researchers investigating the event.

Heading towards the close of the interview, William tells us about the autopsy reports from the event and how he thinks they are critical to his theories surrounding something suspicious happening at Columbine. We wrap up our Columbine conversation with one final bizarre tidbit that William shares regarding two Columbine survivors that ended up going to Virginia Tech and also survived that shooting incident as well. He also talks about another mysterious disappearance related to Columbine and how it is just one of "two dozen" such kids that disappeared from the area after the event.

Closing out the interview, we find out what's next for William Zabel, his other conspiracy related website phantomchasers.com, and other projects he is working on now.

William Zabel has been a graphic designer since 1996, working mostly with post production graphics for television and film. He also worked as an actor in a variety of tv shows and films including "The Adventures of Ford Fairlane." Perry Mason, Father Dowling Mysteries. Played a doctor in the entirely Denver based film, "Nomads."

He has spent twenty years doing political research into government corruption, murder, mind control, and government waste and abuse. He has researched abuse by military and civlian law enforcement including the Panama Invasion, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma CIty Bombing, as well as the Columbine massacre, and Virginia Tech massacre.

He has also researched many paranormal events including the strange events at Denver International Airport, hauntings in local Denver buildings and historical sites, and spend time with his UFO friends (some MUFON) staring up at the sky at night.

His website is columbineconspiracy.com

topics discussed:
2 hr 27 min
William K. Zabel